Dear friends,
I raised some points in the meeting held on 4.10.15. Mr.Raja, Secretary also raised some points.
Mr.Shankar, President wrote the following by email in TC group:
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Mr.Shankar sent another mail in TC group which reads as follows:
Dear
Members
===============================================================
Another mail from President: Posted on 05.05.15 @ 11.46 p.m.
Dear Members
I raised some points in the meeting held on 4.10.15. Mr.Raja, Secretary also raised some points.
Mr.Shankar, President wrote the following by email in TC group:
Dear Members
Thanks to this who attended the
Monthly Trainers Meet of TC today. Thanks also to those who stayed back
and discussed the huge amount of work to be done at TC.
It was unfortunate that
Mr.ShanmaugaSundaram and Mr.RajaK made a planned attack on me. They said:
'Almost 10 Life Members want the life membership money back since Shankar is
the the President'. I walked out of this meeting. Until then we spoke
about the work involved, volunteers who would take up responsibilities
etc. Nice to know that so many people had come forward to share the load.
In the AGM I would like to put
forward the following:
· I had registered NLP Circle and we were communicating
on nlpcircle@gmail.com and were having
monthly meets for more than a year (perhaps almost 2 years). Members
there felt that NLP is one of the various techniques we as Trainers are using
and hence we registered Trainers Circle on 17July2013. I became a bit
busy since I had to re-register all (eight) my properties on the name of my
children. Hence I could not coordinate the monthly meets and TC became
dormant. We all know that there were many who started a trainers-group
but did not take off. Since I am a part of Hypnotic Circle WhatsAll group
I saw a message that one more person (Mr.ShanmugaSundaram) wants to put
Trainers into a group. I attended that Meet (only 5 came including me)
got introduced to Mr.ShanmugaSundaram. I explained that many have started
such a group and failed, why start one more when we already have one registered
(I had personally gone to Saidapet Regsitrar office for follow up of what our
Auditor was coordinating). With the help of our Auditor we have been
taking care of all statutory requirements. The EC meet is meant for
briefing the other members on accounts etc and also for taking
decisions. But no one in the existing EC was contributing and last EC
meeting almost no one came. Rest is now history
· There is a conflict of interest as far as what
Mr.ShanmugaSundaram and Mr.RajaK are doing. Mtr.ShanmugaSundaram
announced a training on behalf his personal club (I think it is not registered)
and announced a discount for TC members when TC was conducting NLP for Trainers
on the same day (20Sep2015). Mr.RajaK is a part of other competing
Trainers-group (I think it is not registered but have crossed 100 members) who
also announce training programs that TC is also conducting. Since there
is a conflict of interest I would be recommending discontinuation of their Life
Membership. We could return the Life Membership Fees paid by them.
· I would not like to continue in an organization where
Mr.ShanmugaSundaram and MrRajaK are a part of it. Anyone who wanted
the Life Membership money back should have made a request to those who were /
are contributing to TC (me. Tr.Subramani, TrSridevi, TrRangadurai,
TrBalakrishnan and many others who also use trainersgmail@gmail.com).
I offered this mail ID to Mr.ShanmugaSundaram but he did not take it (I shall
forward the old mail as proof). Even now it is not late. Please
send a mail and get back your money please.
We are at a stage where we have
taken the first baby step of what we planned in 2012 to achieve over a period
of time. The main aim to provide credibility and training-business to
co-members. It has taken more time. But this is the stage to have
only passionate, non-political and committed members in TC. In a years
time TC will reach levels that would not allow time for such planned attacks.
TC (and I) came to know of
Mr.ShanmugaSundaram and MrRajaK only about a year back. Mr.Raja had
introduced a lot of people to become Members of TC. But there are a
plenty of people who have done everything for TC except both of them.I would
like to remain as friends but not together in TC. Sorry about this but I
have checked with our Auditor and this the alternative that would be good for
TC in the long run.
I am very particular of statutory
compliance. How many of you have registered your Partnership Agreement,
if yours is a partnership firm. Viva LA is a registered one and all
compliance are met. Our Auditor (authorize\d in one the AGMs),
confirms that she has done so even for filing returns of TC before
Mr.ShanmugaSundaram and MrRajaK came into the picture. One of the EC
Meets were conducted and minuted in our Auditor's office (once again both did
not attend that EC too). Our Auditor shall take care procedures for
resignation / removal of the members. Fortunately, the original documents
and all Minutes of AGM and ECM are maintained by me (and Auditor) and both of
them are not signatories anywhere including the bank (thanks to our Auditor;s
suggestion).
People send messages TC WhatsApp
group requesting all of us to contribute to the country without
contributing anything to TC. I have contributed half-a-crore by way of
salary-TDS to the country and have a NGO registered in 1998. And I am
also contributing to TC. It is not fair to treat me like this.
There is no locus-standi for both
Mr.ShanmugaSundaram and Mr.Raja to even respond to this mail.
Others please do
Thanks and regards
SHANKAR S / 94444-95059
Business Acceleration Coach
VIVA LA (VIVA LEADERSHIP ACADEMY) / www.vivala.in
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My REPLY:
Dear
Shankarji, (Copy to all the membes of TC, for information)
Thanks for your mail
and putting forth all your thoughts in writing.
Fine.
In fact, last week I
wanted to meet you personally to talk
on many points, I
could not get an appointment with you since
you were busy. (You
have replied so).
It is my duty to reply
point by point and explain to other members also
what did I raise in
the meeting.
Myself raised some
points and Mr.Raja raised some points.
I have no blame game.
I am bringing some points to you as well as
to the members for the
betterment of trainers (I was aiming
to start a
Professional Forum for Trainers, to get respect to trainers in the
society and protection to trainers in case of any issues to them, legally)
I SALUTE the present
team for the efforts taken till this moment
I want only to strengthen the Circle.
The points raised by
me:
1. Ours is a
registered organization. Bye laws should be given to all the members, then only
members will know their dos and donts and follow the rules and regulations of
the Circle. Members should know what 'violation' means. Hope every member will
accept this. You accepted to issue bye laws to all the members. Fine.
Mr.Sahayaraj raised this point in the first meeting itself. Almost 7 months
have passed. Bye laws
should have been approved the committee. There must be a recording in the
minutes book.
2. I requested that
any fee changes should be done once in a while, not
often, to maintain the
professionalism. Any financial decision should be done only in General Body. GB
is supreme and has the power to take decisions, including subscriptions. (TC
wanted to revise the life membership fee/annual twice till then) Every member
will accept this.
3. In any registered
organization, President, Secretary and Treasurer will be
signatories for bank
operations. Treasurer with President or Secretary will
operate the account. I
was surprised how Secretary Mr.Raja was left out. If Secretary is not taken
into confidence and given the power, then everybody will have the question
about any preconceived opinion.
Members should be
aware of this.
4. Expenses inbetween
two EC meetings should have been placed before
EC for ratification
and sanction. EC members should be informed all the expenses.
5. There should be a
limit for expenditure to be done either by Secretary/President or Treasurer (
Normally Rs.1000/-). Beyond this limit, it should be ratified by EC.
6. I wanted further
discounts for training programs for member trainers, so that
every trainer should
get empowered and become powerful trainers. For the
present proposal of
3900/- can be reduced further (may be no profit or no loss basis initially for
some time).
All members will agree
this, since we have sufficient funds now.
7. The certificates
issued by TC should bear the signatures of Secretary/President and even
the Faculty (not by any single signatory), so that the Certificate will be more
valuable. Every member will agree this.
8. Sending any member
out of the organization should not be taken by any individual. It should be
left with the EC or GB. People should not feel monopoly ruling by one or two.
All
these points are for strengthening the Trainers Circle. If these things are not
taken care now, tomorrow a batch of 100 may come from other group and take over
the circle and misuse the loopholes of the present system.
I am sure all the
members will understand these points. All members are matured enough to
understand the reality and my efforts to upgrade the trainers.
Everybody knows that I
was NOT interested for any post in Trainers Circle though I was offered.
I have been offering the hall FREE for the past 8 months to Trainers
Circle, with the only intention to make Trainers Circle to grow, which nobody
can dispute.
As for as other points
are concerned, I will reply in my next mail. You will have more interesting facts.
ஊர் கூடி தேர் இழுப்போம். ஒரே பாதையை நோக்கி.
இங்கு, அங்கு, சில விஷயங்களை சரி செய்து நமது வட்டத்தை பலப்படுத்துவோம்.
'நான் ஒரு பயிற்சியாளர்' என சொல்வதில் பெருமைப்பட வைப்போம்.
நன்றி
Rgds
A.Shanmugasundaram
Advisor-cum-Convenor/Founder
Trainers Circle
98404 85595
My second mail in continuation to the earlier one:
Dear
Shankarji (and all other members of TC),
Since, you have raised
many points, I have to putforth my points.
1.It was unfortunate that Mr.ShanmaugaSundaram and
Mr.RajaK made a planned attack on me.
I raised my points,
Mr.Raja raised some points. Does it mean a planned attack ?
While running an
organization, hundreds of such questions will be raised by members. Such
questions will make us more mature and redefine the working of the
organization.
In fact, you told me
that we have jointly discussed and raising these. It is not so, my dear friend.
2. When Mr. Raja
raised few points, you should have stayed back to face such situations. I
expected matured answers from you. Walking away from the meeting
that too holding a President post, is unacceptable to the members. (You have
accepted in your mail that you walked away). That was an insult to the TC
members and to the forum. Tomorrow in another meeting, somebody will raise
another point, can we run away from our responsibilities without replying in
every meeting ? Do you think, no body should raise any point at all ? Do you
think that everybody should support all the steps taken by you without checking
right or wrong ? We are always subject to correction. In a democratic forum,
we have to face the reality. Smooth sailing always may not be possible. I
had different positions in many organizations, including General Secretary of
my Bank Union for 15 years. In almost, in every other meeting such questions
will be raised by some member. We have to convince the members and patiently
reply. There is no other way.
There is a
possibility, the members may select another person to conduct the rest of the
meeting if somebody walks away from their position in the meeting.
3. While Mr.Raja has
not given any indication to resign or leave the post, how can you bring an
agenda to replace Secretary. EC doesn't have the power to alter the Committee.
Only General Body is empowered. When I raised this point, you told that your
mail itself is just like a GB notice. My dear friend, it is not a valid one.
EC has no power to
alter Secretary or President. EC can coopt a new EC member.
When you raised this
point, it was an insult to the Secretary Mr.Raja, who initiated to form
Trainers Circle. ( I am not raising the question why you cannot run your
earlier Trainers Circle; I will not ask any irrelevant question).
4. Mr.Raja had introduced a lot of people to become
Members of TC. But there are a plenty of people who have done everything
for TC except both of them.
Your wordings have the
answers. Mr. Raja introduced many persons to TC. Mr. Raja communicated to
thousands of people through his contacts.
From my side,
a. I have contributed by
giving the hall free to TC.
b. I have to cut short
my sessions just with two hours in order to hand over the same to TC.
c. I paid Rs.900/- from
my pocket for every TC meeting for using the LCD Projector. I was not using
that for my meeting.
d. Six Members of my
contacts/clubs became members of TC.
e. To help the new young
trainers, I have shared many CDs at a throwaway prices. No trainer will share
his resources.
f. For three TC members,
I had given free personal guidance, how to become a powerful trainer.
g. I have given
discounts to TC members for my sessions. I have offered one participant
free to my Master Your Mind session, to Mr.Subramani, Treasurer,
when he brought in four members.
Hence, your complaint
that myself and Mr.Raja has not contributed to TC is not a valid one. Members
know very well
5. There is a conflict of interest as far as what
Mr.ShanmugaSundaram and Mr.RajaK are doing.
I am conducting
meetings all the four Sundays in Andhra Chamber of Commerce right from 2013.
Every third Sunday my public workshop on Master Your Mind is conducted.
If TC is conducting another program on the same day, it is OK. it happens. We
have only four Sundays. TC came into existence only in January. My public
workshops are being held right from 2013 on third Sundays. My topic is nowhere related
to TC's NLP. TC announces the date just only in 15 days' advance. Many trainers
are having their own concerns; they will be conducting some programs on
Sundays. That does not mean that they are conflicting the interests of TC. Just
because I became a TC member, I cannot stop my public workshops on third
Sundays or any other day. I have the freedom.
Yes, I have offered
discounts to TC members, just because some members asked for discounts. I
have to show my love and affection to the young trainers. That does not
mean I have conflict of interest. TC members got benefited out of it.
Mr. Raja is collecting
the information about various trainings and passing it on to all. It is a
wonderful service. Nobody can do it. We don't have the patience. Let the members
know what trainings are happening in city. Let them decide. Why Mr. Raja should
be blamed for informing about other trainings. You should be happy that our
members are more enlightened with such informations and different topics. Who
knows, tomorrow one such trainer may use our TC member for his future programs
? Why should we stop such positive developments ? Mr. Raja is not recommending
the TC members. He is informing. It is upto the people. Just because a person
becomes a TC member, we should not expect him to be kept under dark.
Mr.Raja may be or may
not be a member of another Trainers Forum. It is his wish. Nobody can stop
other person. TC cannot dictate terms to its members, where to become members,
to which group they can join. No. TC members cannot become slaves. People have
the freedom.
6.Since there is a conflict of interest I would be
recommending discontinuation of their Life Membership. We could return
the Life Membership Fees paid by them.
This is purely your
personal decision. You presumed that there are conflicts of interests. You want
to send the persons out, who raise questions against you or your team. If TC is
a democratic one, you cannot even recommend of sending a person out or return
the Life Membership fees. GB has to decide whether a person is really acting
against TC or its members. GB has the supreme power. Members know your
perceptions are WRONG. These are not valid reasons to send a person out.
Tomorrow another batch of 100 new members will join and you will say conflict
of interest on silly matters. Who will accept it ? We cannot fool our own
members. We are here to empower them to the level of International Trainers.
If you want to send TC
members out for such questioning, present members will lose confidence on you
and your team. They will have a fear psycho. NO. This is a democratic forum.
Not an aristocratic forum. You are holding only a post to serve; not to work
against TC by sending the persons out for questioning you. Are we increasing
the membership or reducing the membership ?
7. I would not like to continue in an
organization where Mr.ShanmugaSundaram and MrRajaK are a part of it.
You are a confident
person. Pl. walk your talk. We cannot run any organization with 100 % support
always. We have to prove that we are confident persons, if we are doing the
right things. Don't have fear about me or Mr.Raja, if you are doing the things
in right manner.
All along, when we are
talking about issues, why you are personalizing.
We teach the people
'ATTACK THE ISSUE; NOT THE PERSONS' in Inter Personal Training. Here, you are
attacking the persons individually. I have never attacked you in any meeting
either in TC or in any other meeting. (But you have attacked all the trainers, including
me in many places that "what all others are doing are not TRAININGS".
Everybody has his own style. First let us accept that. I never blame your
style). I respect your style and
your individuality. That does not mean you are the only trainer in the world.
I need not answer
whether any trainer has partnership firm or proprietory firm, whether it is
registered or not, I know it is none of my business, it is very much
irrelevant. I know my limitations.
From this episode, I
have learnt something. Even if we wanted to help others, there will be people
to blame, we have to tide over, so that our help will reach thousands of
people. Everyday I am learning. Today you are my teacher. PRANAMS ! I
have learnt something from you.
You have started the email.
What is the fun in continuing reply after reply.Let us not spoil the Trainers
Circle with our limited knowledge and impatience.
I hope, a direct meeting
with you will help to solve the so called issues. I am ready to discuss with
you, because I have a larger interest for our members. I have an open
mind.
Further to my mail
below, here are further points:
· Thanks to so many of you who sent mails to say
that getting business for co-Trainers is of utmost importance, we are on the
right track, there is no point in spending our energies on these two.
Fortunately both are not part of the 8 Patron Members who have paid Rs40000 and
have different expectations from TC.
· Our Auditor says that as per our registered
Bye-Laws there is no provision for Advisor or Convenor and we shall go by that.
· Any organization is run by the Secretary
except ours where I have been doing everything. Today many volunteers
took up so many responsibilities and thank you all once again. But we
need a Secretary who is not involved in other similar / competing
organization. I made a request in the meeting for someone to take over as
President. Please volunteer to take up these responsibilities please.
· The new Secretary shall mail the bye-laws to
all Members. The new EC should go through the Minutes of all ECMs.
If necessary we could have another Resolution and submit to the bank for
inclusion of Secretary also as a signatory.
· Today I was questioned for not sending the
Bye-Laws to all Members. The priorities were to get business for
co-Trainers and to ensure all statutory compliance. I have no
support-staff. All of you know that I am always on mail. If an
one-line mail reminder was sent I would have organized. I am known for
professionalism which includes transparency. As part of the professional /
transparent efforts i was mailing From The Pres Desk. If something was
more important or missed out it could have been pointed out in any of the months
or at least brought up orally during any of the monthly Trainers Meet.
· The two of them had prepared so much for their
planned attack. If only they had contributed 1% of such efforts it would
have helped while we conducted TTT101 and two batches of TTT102 and NLP
trainings. They were not involved in any of the preparatory meetings for these
workshops and they did not even think TC Certification (Accelerated) is
worthwhile for them. In fact they conducted competing programs and we
have been accepting it because between friends we should not sound rude.
My boss (when i was with the Tatas) used to say that if we accept shit people
will throw shit on us. By nature I am very accommodative. But this is the
time to be firm when TC has not grown big yet.
· Our Auditor says that as President I can call
for a EGM and place their names for removal in case they do not resign form
TC's membership. I am firm on this and all of you decide. During the EGM
we shall also discuss on few changes in the Bye-Laws and register whatever is
decided finally.
· For our monthly Trainers Meet, as of now we
anyway have our Regd Office (my property) available free but many feel it is
very far. Like we located a convenient hall for TC's Training Programs, we
should be able to find an economical Hall for our Trainers Meet.
Thanx for your
patience in reading my long mails
Thanks and regards
SHANKAR S / 94444-95059
Business Acceleration Coach
VIVA LA (VIVA LEADERSHIP ACADEMY) / www.vivala.in
Today too I had to spend some time for this issue. I met the Auditor and had the opportunity to discuss the Bye-Laws and other documents with an Advocate (apparently the Auditor's relative) who was in her office.
- As per the Audito-Advocate Team, the Meeting dt 26Jan2015 on which we elected MrShanmugaSundaram and MrRajaK is void since they were not members of TC that day. The Bye-Laws does not allow non-members to be elected.
- Technically the Exec Comm as registered with Saidapet Registrar remains as the Exec Comm members
- If both of them do not resign the suggestion is that I as President could call for an EC Meet of (old) existing EC-members and terminate the membership of both. The Bye-Laws are clear that an EGM / EGM is not required. I shall do so.
- Initiating legal action was also explored on both of them for disrupting the TC Meet that necessitated the President to go. If the Advocate wants to initiate, finally only legal notices will fly from both sides. I am not for it and TC will not pay for legal expenses.
- When lacuna such as Bye-Laws should be circulated to all Members etc were brought up, I was taking notes even though it is the job of a Secretary. The new Secretary shall take care of all the points including issuing fresh Certificates signed by the respective Facilitator. The defamation-trigger was 'There are 10 people who want the life membership back because Shankar is the President' This is a very unfair and I don't deserve this. That too from people who did not even send a 'best wishes' message for the 4 programs that TC conducted for Members. Instead they sent messages on competing programs.
- The Auditor-Advocate team asked: What did they want ... it is not possible for them to take-over TC because of the technicality explained above ... compared to other similar circles TC is different only in certifications in which both of them have nothing to contribute ... they may not be expecting business from TC since they have not given any importance to certifications ... the Treasurer need not submit accounts statements in every meeting ... there is no hanky-panky in any of the entries in bank or cash ... many of you have been volunteering without taking even one rupee out ... what did they want
- Out of the 10 people, Mr.Sankaravel has indicated his willingness to leave TC. The Treasurer shall do the needful. The other 7 or 9, perhaps require some more time to leave. I am waiting. Many months back TrVenkatP pointed out that we need to have a small team and keep giving more business to them rather than go for a membership drive. I tend to agree with him now. Today we have about 25 or more certified Trainers who can conduct effective and impactful training programs. Let me work for getting business for them. I have ensured that 8 Members have got some business, definitely more than their Membership Fee, to start with. Before March I will cover the balance. Wish me the very best.
Pardon me ... sorry ... for one more long mail
Thanks and regards
SHANKAR S / 94444-95059
My reply will be posted shortly.
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